Showing posts with label Conversations. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Conversations. Show all posts

Wednesday, 19 October 2016

How a woman's body-size is like an ATM PIN

A few days ago, this article from the Guardian popped up on my social media news feed. I wouldn’t have clicked on it were it not for this excerpt – “I don’t think it's important to return to the shape you were before. I think if your body grew a baby, that’s an amazing thing and you should be proud of that.”
On the face of it, this seems an important and empowering message. I clicked on the article and read it. The article itself was also undoubtedly important, as it highlighted how pressures to return to a pre-pregnancy body lead some women to taking risks with their health in order to stay slim. My only issue with the entire article was the idea of pride in oneself and accepting one’s body being linked to the fact of having grown a baby. The human body is amazing, and true, one of the amazing things about women’s bodies relate to how they prepare and change for childbirth and childrearing. But the pressure to conform to a certain body-type isn’t specific to pregnant women and mothers. The conditionality introduced into the sentiment – “if your body grew a baby- subtly disempowers and excludes women who aren’t mothers. This isn’t to say that health risks of wanting to be slim aren’t more pronounced in case of pregnant women. They are, and they’re vital issues to address from a health perspective. However, rather than justifying why it’s okay that we are “not the shape we were before”, the message we should be putting out there in response to societal pressures around body-size/ shape should be one of unconditional acceptance and choice (because I believe it’s important for women to be able to choose whether or not their bodily appearance is important to them, instead of telling them it “shouldn’t be”). Instead of empowering people to stand up for their rights unconditionally, the “because you had a baby” part is like giving someone a temporary crutch with which they can ward off societal pressures to conform to an externally imposed standard that shouldn’t be there in the first place.
I’ll segue into another example from a few months ago to illustrate my point. Sania Mirza, a tennis player was asked by an interviewer on Indian media why she hadn’t ‘settled down’ (the colloquial meaning of which is “why haven’t you had children yet?”). Sania’s response to the question was as follows:
“…that’s the question I face all the time as a woman, that all women have to face- the first is marriage and then it’s motherhood. Unfortunately, that’s when we’re settled, and no matter how many Wimbeldons we win or numbers ones in the world we become, we don’t become settled. But eventually it will happen, not right now. And when it does, I’ll be the first one to tell everybody when I plan to do that.”
This response went viral as ‘the perfect response’ on electronic and social media. I -and others with similar thoughts, such as my close friend TQ (who has appeared on this blog before)- thought that while it was good in that it addressed the fact that women are considered complete only once they’re married-mothers, it was just short of perfect.  This is because once again, there was an implication that she shouldn’t be asked this because she is a top tennis player. A society in which traditional, patriarchal expectations are shut down through justifications grounded in successful careers is desirable, but not perfect.  Perfection would be a society where people don’t have to justify their personal choices, period.
Returning to the article, I messaged TQ almost immediately (as I usually do, about most things) and shared my annoyance about the “because you had a baby….” part. I said that as a child-free woman, I resented the implication that the rest of us child-free or childless (because the two mean very different things, and I respect a person’s right to choose a term they identify with) shouldn’t be proud of our bodies just as they are. If mothers get the “you just had a baby” crutch, what legs do the rest of us have to stand on if the ideology itself-- that women should either conform to external standards of beauty or give solid reasons as to why they should be ‘exempt’-- goes unchallenged?
TQ agreed, and added “there is a lot written about pride when it comes to mothers. Whether it’s about body image or about work-life balance or many areas of life that all women, mothers or not, struggle with. As a pattern, it becomes excluding, and therefore problematic.”
This led to a discussion about other situations in which as non-parents, we have felt excluded, disregarded or dismissed. A classic example was offered by TQ, who found herself on the receiving end of much eye-rolling by someone in her neighbourhood concerned about the numbers of stray dogs in the area. A notice had been put up about this “menace” (I use the quotation marks ironically, because neither TQ nor I are the sort of people that would think of large numbers of dogs as a menace. Far from it. More the merrier, we say!). The notice supposedly came from the hearts and minds of concerned parents.
TQ told me how she and her partner got into an argument with one of the concerned parents when they asked if anyone had been harmed because of the dogs. “The guy stutters”, TQ went on, “and then says ‘well no one yet, but I am sure you wouldn’t want your kids to be the ones to be bitten first’. We replied that we aren’t parents…. The guy just rolled his eyes as if to say ‘That explains!’ and walked off.” 
I noted to TQ how the “concerned parents” line is often used to close arguments. Is there a respectable retort to that that won't make you look like an evil sociopath who wants the world-and-all-good-things-within-it to end? 
I often find myself pushing back against the notion that the child-free are just, oh I don't know, soul destroying scum who clearly don’t care about anything. We just guzzle fossil fuels from beer bongs, sit around in our underwear scratching our crotches with one hand while clutching a bottle of tequila with the other, watching trash on Netflix and you know, NOT calling our parents because of course we-are-not-parents-ourselves-so-how-could-we-possibly-know-that-parents-want-to-hear-from-their-kids. While we’re at it, we also like to have sleeping parties to celebrate all the sleep we clearly get (“Because you’re lucky you don’t know what it’s like to have a toddler waking you up in the middle of the night”) and like to roll around naked on all the wads of cash we have lying around (“Because you don’t have to worry about kids’ college fees”).
I can’t keep track of the number of times I’ve been told how I wouldn’t understand something because I don’t have kids. Whether it’s debates about vaccinations, climate change or organic food, casual conversations about being sleep deprived or Brexit (yeah, Brexit. Apparently the legitimacy of my socio-political views is directly linked to whether or not I’ve given birth. Sidebar: I #Remain terribly sad at the looming prospect of Brexit). 
The “you won’t understand because you don’t have kids” line is strange for several reasons. Let’s start with the fact that no one really understands – on an experiential level- what it’s like to BE another person. A lot can get in the way of this. The laws of physics, for one thing. Privilege, for another. All we can do is try to understand the other as much as possible.  Of course I don’t have experiential knowledge of being a parent. Just like I don’t have experiential knowledge of what it’s like to be a skydiver. Or a beetle. Doesn't mean I can't imagine the anguish the poor creature must feel when it's lying on its back, tiny legs flailing, trying to turn itself the right side up. Secondly, it implies that those who don’t have kids can’t empathise with being a parent – which is a very narrow and inaccurate view of the capacity for empathy. There are people who can’t empathise with challenges of parenthood. There are people who don’t have children. They don’t necessarily overlap completely. Plus, due to things like, say, PRIVILEGE, it’s not like some kind of magical shared understanding exists between all parents. A single parent from a low-income household doesn’t see the world the same way, or even see the same world as a parent with a  lot of financial and social support. If I were to represent the capacity for empathising with parents in the form of a basic Venn diagram, it would look like this:




So maybe it’s not just about some of the non-parents not being able to understand till we have kids of our own. Maybe it’s also a case of some parents not being able to see beyond their own experiences and imagine a scenario in which someone could care about principles, values and issues even in the absence of any direct offspring that may be affected by said issues. For instance, I don’t need to have children in order to be concerned about climate change. My love for polar bears and feeling of solidarity with people in the rapidly sinking pacific islands has that covered.
To this category of parents, I’d just like to say the following: I am pleased for you if you anchor your moral and ethical compass around your children. In some cases, maybe it took having kids in order for you to discover or strengthen your morals and ethics. But if you could please refrain from assuming moral, ethical and intellectual bankruptcy on the part of those of us that don’t have kids, that would be great.
As for challenging social pressures, when you start to justify yourself in response to ridiculous expectations, it gives them a legitimacy they don’t deserve. Worse, it does absolutely nothing to challenge the insidious ideology behind the expectations.
So I propose the following, alternative response. Here's how I'd like to see such conversations go-
Person A:  “When are you going to lose all that weight?”
Person B: “What’s your ATM PIN number?”
Person A: “That’s none of your business!”
Person B: “Exactly. Glad we clarified that.”

Saturday, 1 May 2010

On why I bought a cap I did not need

In the summer of 2007, I was in Srinagar contemplating the purchase of a cap. It was one meant for men, and while trying it on I caused the shopkeeper to laugh heartily when I asked my companion if it made me look like Ghulam Nabi Azad.

In pitching the cap to me, he said "Haan haan..namaaz padhne ke liye badhiya rahega"- Yes yes, it will be great for saying namaaz (Muslim prayer).

My companion looked at me in a manner that made it obvious to the shopkeeper that I was no namaaz-sayer.

A second later he added, "Uh..vaise pooja paath mein bhi pehen sakte hain sar dhakne ke liye"- But you could also use it to cover your head during (Hindu) prayers

While it was very perceptive of him to gauge from my companion's expression that I was not the namaaz-saying type, he did make a big leap in assuming that I was a pooja-paath doer.

I did appreciate the flexibility of his sales pitch, and ended up buying the cap.



Friday, 23 April 2010

And now it's official

Holy Cow: the other day a 72 year old sat in front of me and said
"I am so sick and tired of stupid people"
and I could totally relate to her
Comfort: lol..
u have the wisdom of a 72 year old..!
:)
Holy Cow: ha haI have known that for a long time :-)
PS- I feel, at this juncture, obliged to admit that I have also, on one occasion, related to the phenomenological position of an infant. She was sitting across from me on the Delhi metro, and our eyes met. Me, tired after a day long day of psychopathologising, and her, forced to sit uncomfortably cramped on her mother's lap. Her expression was one of sheer existential angst.
So there you go. Things I can relate to include an infant with an existential crisis, and a frustrated 72-year-old.
Such are the chatte and batte of my thaali*

(*apologies to readers unfamiliar with Hindi proverbs)


Friday, 12 February 2010

My "mirroring" other- A book

"The act is 'simple, determinate, universal' but his self wishes to be complex, indeterminate, and unique. The act is 'what can be said of it' but he must never be what can be said of him. He must remain ungraspable, elusive, transcendent"

That is R.D. Laing commenting on Hegel's notion of action in "The Divided Self".

Reminds me of what a professor said to me three years ago- "I can't quite grasp what you're about. It is almost like even in telling me everything, you are concealing something. The only thing I have ever received from you is the sense that I can never really receive the real you"

Genuinely pleased at the accuracy of his interpretation of the countertransference, I smiled and said, "You're right"

Wednesday, 10 February 2010

"If you were a cat, I would feed you GoCat" *

Easily one of the nicest, non-corny things anyone ever said to me.

* What was actually said was "अगर तुम बिल्ली होती तो मैं तुम्हे 'GoCat' खिलाता"






Wednesday, 21 October 2009

Speaking of birthdays...

Holy Cow: I missed the runts' birthday
forgot
The 'wise' one: Even I forgot
......
Holy Cow: How does one wish babies anyway !
s
The 'wise' one: You wish the parents
Holy Cow: yeah, I guess the parents have done more work than the kids to ensure another birthday.
Birthdays are silly. As Seinfeld said, the only thing you're celebrating is the fact that you managed to stay alive for the last 364 days.
I paraphrase, of course. What he said was probably funnier.

Wednesday, 26 August 2009

The Religious Tolerance of the Atheist



Travelling to London one afternoon, the passenger sitting next me momentarily shelved what I had come to regard as British social etiquette, and struck up a conversation with me despite the fact that I was a total stranger. Being non-British myself, I didn't feel offended as if my private space had been invaded so all was well. Though I must admit I found it a bit strange that she seemed to want to chat despite the fact that I had my nose buried in a book. After general chit chat about what I did, where I was from, what I was going to do etc. etc., she happened to mention that she was on a course in theology, attempting to make better sense of her religion. She had converted to Catholicism recently.

During the two hour or so train journey, she and I spent about sixty or so minutes talking about religion and God, among other things such as psychological suffering, human existence, and mental illness.

Let me state at the outset that I am not a religious person. I don't practice any religion, and while I think nearly all organised religions may have something to offer as far as humanism is concerned, I think overall they have led to more division than unity, and more harm than good for humanity.

I made my religious indifference clear to her quite early in our conversation.

We spoke about God and nature, and she told me how as part of her religious journey she had learnt how to witness God in everything around us, especially the natural world. She added that some people were unable to see it that way, and wanted evidence to prove the existence of God. I calmly replied that individuals were all different and both positions were equally valid. It's just a question of the meaning you ascribe to things and events, more often than not it just boils down to the words we use to construct those meanings. Some people are moved by faith, some are not. I also added that it was hard for either to convince the other, because if one knew the language of the other there wouldn't be a problem to begin with. As an example, I pointed out that no matter how hard they tried, they might not be able to convince Richard Dawkins about God's existence all around us. People who need evidence need it before they can believe, and people who speak the language of faith need you to believe before you can see the "evidence".

The question here appears to lie on the atheism/theism vs. agnosticism question. Some may be quite happy to believe without having the knowledge, others may disbelieve in the absence of knowledge. Some others may claim to possess the knowledge, which I have to admit seems an odd position to have, but that's my personal viewpoint.

She then asked me what I thought of Richard Dawkins. She said she often felt he said what he did just for publicity. Now despite my tolerance, I don't like people being misunderstood or misrepresented, so I promptly came to Dawkins' defense and told her I didn't think he did it for publicity and he really does believe in what he writes. Or writes what he believes in. Whichever way you look at it.

We agreed that it was best to try and learn about one's religion academically, to make better sense of it and arrive at your own subjective interpretation of it, rather than blindly following what others have said. I would appreciate any effort by the religious to try and deconstruct their religion. I anticipate it will lead to shifts in their world view.

She came across as someone trying to make sense of the world through the prism of her religion, seeking external validation in the process. Far from trying to convince me of the supremacy of her religious world view, she seemed to be quite unconvinced about it herself. I remained largely non committal, making a case for subjective realities, individual choice and preference, and broadmindedness enough to have an opinion while letting others have their own opinions as well. While she nodded along in agreement, I think my non committal answers did frustrate her a little.

Fellow atheists might feel I let her off too easily. That I should have argued against her beliefs, and metaphorically put-her-in-her-place. I on the other hand feel I did quite alright to make my own position known. Why not defend your position more vociferously, some might ask. Why not try to convince the other that religion is less than ideal? That you are right and they are erring?

I don't feel the need to defend my position. I think I am right, and that suffices for me. I am definitely not aiming to convince anyone of anything. I am convinced of my position, and in discussions and exchanges of ideas with me if another were to start thinking or feeling differently, I would regard that as a natural bi-product of a conversation between open minded individuals rather than a victory for "my side" or my powers of persuasion.

In order to influence others' opinions, two conditions must be met. Firstly, you should have conviction in what you're trying to say and secondly, the other should have enough mental elasticity to accommodate your views. If these two conditions are absent, any conscious effort to try and convince another person will be an exercise in futility. On the other hand, if they are both present, I believe some transfer of ideas will naturally occur by osmosis.

While we're on the subject, I definitely don't think the way to make an impression on another person is by belittling their existing viewpoints. Try telling someone suffering from psychosis that they are wrong in believing that Iran is developing nuclear weapons with the specific aim of destroying them, for example, and watch the metaphorical distance between the two of you increase right before your eyes.

Certain types of beliefs are impervious to arguments aimed at proving them wrong. Knowledge/ignorance can be tackled by logical arguments. But what do you do when someone says "I don't know but I believe...." ? The only way to confront those beliefs is by admitting "I hear what you're saying, but this is what I believe". That's the end of it.

We have heard the words "religious tolerance" often enough. What does it mean though? Does it mean respecting all religions equally? Perhaps not. Your own choice and lifestyle make it abundantly clear that you respect one way of life more than another. That's why you choose to follow it. If I choose to practice XYZ to the exclusion of other religions, it's quite apparent that something about XYZ appeals to me more than other religions.

Atheists, it is fair to say, have little respect for any organised religion. Otherwise they wouldn't be atheists, would they?

What exactly is religious tolerance then?

It is not about respecting or supporting other religions. It is about respecting and supporting an other's freedom to choose to practice any or all of those religions. Remember Voltaire's famous quote on tolerance? No, not the one about which considerable controversy still exists, but the straightforward one from his Essay on Tolerance - "Think for yourself, and let others enjoy the privilege to do so".

I trust, or would like to trust, that atheists do believe in liberal humanism even if they scoff at the world's recognised religions. Liberal humanists, while making their views known, let others arrive at their own conclusions about the nature of things. They are broadminded enough to realise that the world is filled with different individuals, each of whom may live their lives as they choose, even with much pomp and show, and have every right to do so.

Let it be known that I also think it is annoying when someone tries to sell an idea to you despite much head-shaking and protests on your part. Religious types can come on pretty strong, I agree. But many a time it seems to me that any discussion on the subject is perceived as being an attempt to promote one's agenda rather than what it is- a mere exchange of ideas. I wish it weren't so.

Of course, for the times that they do hound you and try to win you over to "their side", maybe the above mentioned will help you ward them off by giving them gyaan (a lesson) in tolerance for individual differences and freedom of choice.

Politely saying "Thanks for the offer, but I'm all set for now" might be a better solution than having an angry war of words.





Thursday, 16 July 2009

Hum jaante hai jannat ki haqeeqat lekin, dil ko behelaane ke liye yeh khayal accha hai

(Snippets of an old conversation with someone)

hmm...old age can be weird. I don't mind it as long as all my sense organs are working fine, I can still walk/ run around, and other body parts don't give up. Basically, age doesn't matter as long as qualitty of life doesn't deteriorate.

I am very amused by this talk about "wanting to be dead"

I mean death is so amazing as a thing! It's the one thing you can't really talk about 'wanting' in seriousness without sounding stupid. Because wanting something always connotes desiring something because you anticipate a good result. i.e. you want something because of how it will make you feel once your desire is satiated.

With death, that's impossible. You can want it all you like, but when you get it, you won't be around to experience the fulfillment of the want. So till the time you are capable of feeling and thought, you are left wanting. and when one isn't capable of feeling and thought, how does anything matter anyway?

death is not the end of suffering. If you suffer in life, and are seeking escape in death, its pretty hopeless. Because you will suffer till you are alive. and when you die, it doesn't matter if there is suffering or not because you wont be alive to suffer its presence or enjoy its absence.

.....

Having said that, I talk about wanting to die all the time! :-) but that's more for the sake of drama. And finding expression of an extreme kind for what is otherwise inexpressible.

I think my attitude to death is one of indifference. Not wanting or not-wanting.

................

To escape pain for what? Why do we want to escape pain? Because absence of pain is desirable. Otherwise there is no point wanting it. But with death even that wont be there. Except for others to discuss at an intellectual level. Or for us to discuss it now, at an intellectual level.
Not for the one who has died. For him, as long as he "was" he was suffering. When he "was" no more, well, the verb "to be" can't be applied in any form

.............

For whom is it over? You talk about something unpleasant being "over" for someone, only if they have experienced its absence. Otherwise you wouldn't know it is over right? And how is that possible after death? Except for the alive ones to talk about and discuss?

There is no 'you' after you die.. except in the minds of others you have left behind.
And yes, the idea of death as the end of suffering offers us solace when we are alive. But actually, its a delusion.

.............

But no matter when you die, the pain remains till you do. Even to say "extra pain" and "extra suffering", one has to go way beyond the here and now and it is still a very distanced perspective on the matter.
For instance, lets say I have died. This question of "would have suffered more if she were alive" is something others will discuss after I am gone.
also, "if he hadn't died, he would still be suffering", again this doesn't mean much to the person who dies. If I think that "if I die, I will no longer suffer" makes no sense at all. There will be no "I" after I die who "will no longer suffer"

It is as if a pigeon is trapped in a cage, and one day the cage is opened and it has its first shot at freedom. What I am trying to say vis a vis death is the equivalent of the pigeon's neck snapping just when it is reaching the open door.

............

yes... it sounds like quite a plan in theory. That's what I am saying. It's great comfort for the alive ones to talk about it like this. But in actuality, and if one doesn't believe in life after death and what not, then death is the end of you. Not of the suffering. And no, it doesn't suffice to say if you are not there, then there is no suffering.

Your saying "if they continued to exist, they would continue to suffer" still doesn't help the dead man. Again, you may not say it that way, but the desire for something positive (in this case the avoidance of continued suffering) is implied in the cessation of something negative.

It's not an enemy you can outsmart or defeat.

Imagine it like this. Let's say there's an ostrich who buries its face in the sand to escape a predator. When its face is buried, it can't breathe, see, hear, or feel. It is closed to experience of any kind. In order to experience again, it has to come out, and when it does, the predator is still there.

As I understand it now, your argument is that when it can't experience anything, it can't experience the predator either. But what I am saying is that the second part of this statement is incorrect. For to say "it cannot experience" implies an "it"'s existence. But that is not the case. You can say "it isn't". But once you establish that, any other or further negation is not possible. For when something isn't, the possibility of other verbs being negated ceases to exist

.................

For me to hold the idea that death brings an end to their suffering is a functional one to have. But it doesnt help the one on the other side.
For example, I was glad when Arundhati (an injured and suffering elephant) succumbed to her pain and died. For it gave me mental peace to think that her pain had come to and end. But really, thats a belief I have in order to comfort myself.

For till the time she could feel, she felt pain. So when she died, it was not like she was relieved from her pain. There was no "she" left.

................

The only thing I am suggesting is that however adaptive and great this idea of death as an escape is, it is a purely theoretical one and it can never be anything else. Experientially, it is impossible.

Suffering is a constant companion, a sangdil saathi.

Saturday, 18 October 2008

Ease

TQ: You are god sent
Holy Cow: we all are my dear
TQ: or whoever you would like to have been sent by
Holy Cow: equally god sent or non god sent, whichever way you look at it
TQ: :) Thank you would be less controversial ..
Holy Cow: Indeed. And you are welcome :-)

It's nice to be able to set things straight with friends this way.

Tuesday, 8 July 2008

La madre amable :-P

Comfort: It would really make me so happy if you have kids

Holy Cow: I see!

Comfort: Because I know you will make a wonderful mother

Holy Cow: Yeah. Maybe, by not giving birth to the kids, I am already being a good mother by shielding them from the suffering called existence.

Thursday, 5 June 2008

No promises broken, no justice denied; He never promised us anything, so we can't say that He Lied

"I find this whole idea of having been "wronged" in some way (with respect to life) quite futile, and that is the very idea that this whole talk of fairness vs. unfairness (of life) brings with it. Your life has not been given to you to be peachy. No one is obligated to make you happy. Creation is a chance occurence. That's it. It's like saying "It's not fair that the sky is blue" . The sky doesn't give a damn and doesn't have any obligation to. So the question of "justice not being done" doesn't arise."

This was some Gyaan (words of wisdom) that the Holy Cow baanto-ed (distributed) to a friend recently.
She does that a lot.
That too, free of charge.

Tuesday, 27 May 2008

Hum mandir ke darwaze nahi khat-khataate, but this is one of those things that ought to be said

me: You're great, you know that?

.....

Tushar: :)
Spread the word then ___!!!
:D


me: err...
thinking of ways to do that


Tushar: ha ha ha.....
that should be an interesting brainstorming session


me: among friends etc the word is spread. I am fairly vocal about which people I like etc .
me: as for others....


Tushar: awww... so sweet


me: (tapping fingers on table)
(in a pensive fashion)


Tushar: (that's more like impatience)
(tap temples)


me: I am not a temple tapper


Tushar: hehehe


me: pun- religious i.e.- very intended !


Tushar: :)



So here it is world! This boy is indeed quite wonderful. Good person to have around. The Holy Cow, at least, is glad that her life crossed paths with his.



There.



I think I 'prachaar karofy' quite well.

Friday, 11 April 2008

Some Ophthalmological Consequences of the Anatomical Differences Between theTwo Sexes*

TQ: When you check men out, do you look at anatomy?

Holy Cow: Umm....Don't think so. No.

TQ: Okay

Holy Cow: In fact, any man dressed in attire which even allows you to do that, is clearly not worth checking out and is best avoided.

* Idea for title inspired by a paper by Sigmund Freud on "Some Psychological Consequences of the Anatomical Differences Between the Two Sexes"

Tuesday, 1 April 2008

When three discussed the 'bee' and the 'thee'

This post led to some exchanges between Holy Cow and "Thee", and Holy Cow and Scoop.

Allow me to share some points of consideration.

'Thee', being an aficionado of elegance, and somewhat of a connoisseur of poetry and prose, thought that the last line was too long. It was suggested to change it

from

"Once upon a Rose
There sat a little bee
Then it flew away


And that ended their story"


to

"Once upon a Rose
There sat a little bee
Then it flew away,


Thus ending their story"


While agreeing that it was more elegant in its rhyme than the original one, I preferred the first one.

Let me tell you why.

One reason I liked the poem, was because of its similarity to Khayyam/Fitzgerald's verse from the Rubaiyat. The verse in question is

"There was a door to which I found no key

There was a veil past which I could not see


A little talk a while of thee and me there was


And then, no more of me and thee"


I love this verse. It is so simple in all its existential truth and glory. It doesn't connote a causality of there being no more of "Me and thee" because either one of them left the other.

Similarly, the old version of the poem doesn't suggest causality while the newer version does. It suggests that the reason for the story's end was the departure of the bee.

Scoop read the post, and said she liked it a lot. I told her what had ensued between 'Thee' and me and she tended to like the newer version more. Her reason? She said she understood what I meant but she liked the sadness in the newer version.

Let it now be stated clearly that the Holy Cow also likes the newer version in its own right, when considered independently.

However, changing the old to the new would necessitate dissociating it from the Rubaiyat, or my interpretation of that verse from the Rubaiyat, which I did not wish to do at any cost.

P.S. You know what I could accept though?

"Once upon a Rose

There sat a little bee


Then it flew away


Thus ended their story"


Okay. I will add this bit as an edit to the previous post.


P.P.S -

Scoop- "My thee" is .....?
Holy Cow- Yeah. Since Khayyam says, "Me and thee"
Scoop- I figured
Holy Cow- Even though I absolutely hated using the possessive adjective "My" for "Thee"
Scoop- I know. I am actually quite surprised you said "My". That's the first thing I noticed!

Holy Cow has problems with the use of possessive indicators of any kind with relationships of choice. Use of words like "He is mine" or "She is mine" don't go down well with the Holy Cow. She doesn't think anyone is anyone's.

Monday, 10 March 2008

Om Madan Prakash Narayan Shivpuri


Conversation between TQ and Holy Cow (A classic example of the randomness that the two of them are capable of)

TQ- So, who killed Ms. McKenzie? (Asking about a mystery novel she was reading)

Holy Cow- Umm.....Om Shivpuri (Keen to jump at a chance to create tumult and confusion)

TQ-Who the hell is Om Shivpuri

Holy Cow- He is the guy in Gumnaam. The one who ends up being the murderer...no?

TQ- Hain?

Holy Cow- Arre, the fellow in Gumnaam yaar! Don’t you remember Om Shivpuri?

TQ- There is no one by that name!

Holy Cow- Of course there is! Okay, he may not be the guy in Gumnaam, but I know there is someone by that name from old Bollywood.

TQ- This guy is someone else. Om Shivpuri is that guy is Karz

Holy Cow- Which guy in Karz?

TQ- The villain. Sir Judah.

Holy Cow- (Laughing at the name)- Who is Sir Judah?

TQ- That guy at the end. The one who cant speak and communicates only in sign language

Holy Cow- What does he look like? I don’t think he is the same guy from Gumnaam. Because he is not ringing a bell at all! And I have seen Karz twice! The Om Shivpuri I am talking about is a mustachioed man.

TQ- Sir Judah also had a moustache. And he was bald

Holy Cow- He was bald but he had a moustache? How vague is that!

TQ- Why? Chacha Chaudhury is bald and has a moustache!

Holy Cow- Yeah, but he wears a turban so it doesn’t count. Coz we can’t see it.

TQ- I think the guy you mean is some Prakash. Om Prakash!

Holy Cow- Oh yeah!! It could be Om Prakash!

TQ- I don’t know, Om Shivpuri is not having the “aha” quality to the name.

Holy Cow- Oh ho, there is an Om Shivpuri for sure.

TQ- You know, now that you have said the name sp much, it is starting to ring a bell. Though I am also getting a hint of Narayan

Holy Cow- maybe his name was Narayan Om Prakash

TQ- Now we are just going to Kaashi- Mathura! Who is that guy who gets mimicked a lot?

Holy Cow- Oh right. He is Om Prakash. Back to square one. Tell me what this Sir Judah looks like.

TQ- He doesn’t have many teeth

Holy Cow- He doesn’t have many teeth?? That’s what you’re giving me to work with? He doesn’t have many teeth??

TQ- (Laughing uncontrollably now) yeah!

Holy Cow- So we have a bald, fat, tooth less, mustachioed man who cant speak.

TQ- Who was the guy who played Mogambo ?

Holy Cow- Amrish puri

TQ- Oh yeah. His elder brother I think is Om Shivpuri.

Holy Cow- Hmmm.... Is Sir Judah the same as the guy who comes as the rich father in most Bmitabh Bachchan movies?

TQ- No no. Sir Judah doesn’t come as father figure. He only comes as a villain.

Holy Cow- Then who is that guy!?!

TQ- Okay. The guy who gets mimicked is Om Prakash for sure right! So he is in the clear.

Holy Cow- yeah. I don’t know why I am sure that the Gumnaam guy is Om Shivpuri . Though this Sir Judah is boggling the mind.

TQ- Don’t you remember him, he was being massaged by naked women in his little pool in his room. Like a buffalo.

Holy Cow- So now we have a bald mustachioed buffalo without many teeth being massaged by naked women??
Holy Cow- Was Sir Judah fat in absolute terms or relative?

TQ- Absolute

Holy Cow- My gumnaam guy was not fat. And in his defense, he didn’t have any hair loss issues either!

TQ- I know. I have established the chronology of events. Gumnaam was much older than Karz. So maybe the Gumnaam guy was young, had hair and teeth and was thinner. And then when he did Karz, he had lost his hair, gained weight and lost his teeth.

Holy Cow- Ha ha, Isn’t one supposed to become frail and thin when one is old?

TQ- he wasn’t that old ..that he was wasting away! Okay, Google for three things. Gumnaam cast, Karz cast and Om Shivpuri.

Meanwhile....TQ had asked her brother who apparently is a film wiz.

TQ- Okay. He says that Sir Judah is Madan Puri, who is Amrish Puri's brother who is also the guy in Gumnaam. Om shivpuri is the guy who plays Vardan in Don.

Holy Cow- Okay. So Om Shivpuri is the guy who I meant as the one playing father figure in Amitabh films.

TQ- yeah.

Holy Cow- I am not convinced about Sir Judah being same as Gumnaam guy. Did Sir judah have blue eyes?

TQ_ Gumnaam was black and white! How would you make anything out with eye colour?

Holy Cow- Gumnaam was in colour! Don’t you remember Mehmood's dream sequence of "hum kaale hain to kya hua?"

TQ- oh yeah yeah. Well, Madan Puri was the same as Sir Judah. The murderer in Gumnaam is Madan Puri. The bearded chap

Holy Cow- Whoa! Hold on a minute! My chap doesn’t have a beard!

TQ- Well the murderer in Gumnaam was bearded.

Holy Cow- there is a chance I am wrong about my chap being the murderer. Oooh…was there a Madan Mohan? An actor by that name I mean?

TQ- You are confusing Madan Puri with Mac Mohan

Holy Cow- Please! Mac Mohan was such a frail little thing

…….

The conversation flickered to an end.

On Googling for the above mentioned, it turned out that:-

1. The murderer in Gumnaam was Madan Puri. The Holy Cow was pleased to find that his face matched the one she had in her head.
2. Sir Judah in Karz was Prem Nath and not Madan Puri. And yes, Prem Nath is quite fat. Though his dental description requires further exploration.
3. Om Shivpuri is the the man who played father figure ish roles in a lot of Amitabh bachchan films.
4. Madan Puri is Amrish Puri’s brother.




Wednesday, 13 February 2008

Where the bathroom geyser meets life

Oh how the simple and seemingly uninteresting things remind you of the irony of life and love!

We were discussing the state of the geyser recently, when The Wise One said, "The bottom part is being held together by the very rust that was the reason for its degeneration"

Sigh.

Yes. The cure is often the same as the illness.

Dard bhi tum, dard ki dawa bhi tum

Monday, 21 January 2008

Sharing the wine of wisdom

TQ: Jab tak bike nahin the koi poochta nahin thaAapne kharid kar humein anmol kar diya..
I cant quite grasp the density of the sentiment behind this.. pl shed some light if u can..


Holy Cow: wah wah
actually the lines are...
jab tak bika na tha
koi poochta na tha
tune mujhe khareed ke anmol kar diya


TQ: :) beautiful
who would say this.. and when?
am feeling quite blank..

Holy Cow: its a sufi state of being

that only when I sell myself to you, do I really become priceless.
and my worth and value is only that you bought me
and I, was bought willingly by you


TQ: hmmm.. it is the monetary transaction aspect which I cant grasp.. but I guess buying and selling doesn't necessarily involve money



Holy Cow: To state it differently- all the material things of worth, against which I was thus far being valued, are nothing compared to what I become when I become yours

Monday, 3 December 2007

A Gentle Man's Game Indeed!

Holy Cow: I forwarded cricket photo to every one I know!!
it was hilarious!!
:D

Comfort: lol.!!!
I know..
so did u figure out?

Holy Cow: I didn't even try!
.......

Comfort: :P ok

Holy Cow: I figured it was their testosterone way of showing their macho win !
"yeah boy, you took a wicket"
addressed to his balls of course !
:-)
PUN VERY INTENDED!!
Comfort: ha ha ha...!!!! oh my god...thats hilarious.!!!!!!!!!!

Friday, 2 November 2007

"Why Buddha has long ears"- In the words of a little boy



Recently, I happened to be around a little boy of about seven and his dad (?) as they were looking at some idols of Buddha. They sounded English but I cant be too sure. Anyway, the kid tugged at his father's shirt sleeve and said

"Dad, you know why he has long ears?"


That was the point at which I started to eavesdrop intently.

The following conversation ensued.

Dad: "Why is that son?"

Kid: "He used to be a prince before he became Lord Buddha. At that time, because he was rich he would wear really long earrings which were heavy and caused his ears to become long. Then when he left all the money and stuff, his ears still remained long. The long empty ears are a to remind us of what he gave up"


I couldn't help but smile, and raised my eyebrows appreciatively at them. The adult started laughing as the kid hid behind him. I happened to be wearing long silver earrings that day, so he pointed to my ears and asked, "Trying to do the same thing?"

So I just grinned, shrugged and said, "Well, not really. But who knows! Give me a few more years and perhaps I'll get there!"

Monday, 17 September 2007

Maligning Malinga

Holy Cow: doesn't malinga have a weird bowling action?
very non graceful, the release seems sudden and premature
as if he has impulse control issues



Vino: you sound like you are talking about sex :-)